Wine - can it be unsafe?
22 posts
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Wine - can it be unsafe?
by Tim Lowry » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:58 pm
Hi,
My girlfriend was recently watching the cookery slot on ITV's "This Morning" with chef Phil Vickery as he was preparing GF pancakes. Phil happened to mention that certain wines can aggravate coeliacs due to ingredients added! Unfortunately he didnt offer anything further on the subject, but I guess he implied gluten. Needless to say, as a wine lover, I was shocked! I always thought that all wines had to be GF as per the coeliac society.
Anybody ever heard anything like this before? I hesitate to suggest but I have occassionally had uncomfortable days after a glass or two of wine, but always but it down to something that I had eaten, as opposed to drank! And no, it wasnt just a hangover!! Perhaps some cheaper, mass produced brands have some "special ingredients" added to enhance flavour...but I could well be wide of the mark here.
Thanks,
Tim
My girlfriend was recently watching the cookery slot on ITV's "This Morning" with chef Phil Vickery as he was preparing GF pancakes. Phil happened to mention that certain wines can aggravate coeliacs due to ingredients added! Unfortunately he didnt offer anything further on the subject, but I guess he implied gluten. Needless to say, as a wine lover, I was shocked! I always thought that all wines had to be GF as per the coeliac society.
Anybody ever heard anything like this before? I hesitate to suggest but I have occassionally had uncomfortable days after a glass or two of wine, but always but it down to something that I had eaten, as opposed to drank! And no, it wasnt just a hangover!! Perhaps some cheaper, mass produced brands have some "special ingredients" added to enhance flavour...but I could well be wide of the mark here.
Thanks,
Tim
by coeliac » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:51 pm
Certain wines can aggravate coeliacs - it was not stated on the show that wine actually contains gluten?
We have looked into wine at different stages over recent years and found nothing to suggest that wine is not gluten free.
We have looked into wine at different stages over recent years and found nothing to suggest that wine is not gluten free.
CSI Gluten Free Food List Team
by ppstokes » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:25 pm
Gluten can be used to clarify wine in production.
Here, gluten was tested in various forms, and found to work. Lab testing of the wine afterwards found no gluten.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0105539
However, if a person with nut allergy was given something that had been treated with nuts, although traces were not to be found on lab tests, would they consume the product? I know nut allergy and CD are quite different, but I meet some coeliacs that are SO sensitive it is unreal.
Wheat flour can be used to improve sealing in wine barrels:
http://www.stavin.com/barrelsystems/insert.htm
Interesting debate here:
http://www.gfdoctor.com/?tag=redwine
On this page you will find another interesting comment showing an awareness of the problem in one wine producer:
http://jmkpod.blogspot.com/2008/03/read ... cking.html
And here:
http://pa-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid ... opic=10182
Certainly I find a reaction after certain wines, but I've never gone to the trouble of keeping a diary. That would spoil the fun, wouldn't it? In my case severe tiredness is an immediate reaction to gluten. I don't get intestinal symptoms.
I've felt really stupidly tired after eating in some restaurants where I though they were really good at the GF diet. Maybe a residue in the wine caused the problem?
Maybe that is why so many coeliacs say they've been glutened in good restaurants?
Here, gluten was tested in various forms, and found to work. Lab testing of the wine afterwards found no gluten.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0105539
However, if a person with nut allergy was given something that had been treated with nuts, although traces were not to be found on lab tests, would they consume the product? I know nut allergy and CD are quite different, but I meet some coeliacs that are SO sensitive it is unreal.
Wheat flour can be used to improve sealing in wine barrels:
http://www.stavin.com/barrelsystems/insert.htm
Interesting debate here:
http://www.gfdoctor.com/?tag=redwine
On this page you will find another interesting comment showing an awareness of the problem in one wine producer:
http://jmkpod.blogspot.com/2008/03/read ... cking.html
And here:
http://pa-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid ... opic=10182
Certainly I find a reaction after certain wines, but I've never gone to the trouble of keeping a diary. That would spoil the fun, wouldn't it? In my case severe tiredness is an immediate reaction to gluten. I don't get intestinal symptoms.
I've felt really stupidly tired after eating in some restaurants where I though they were really good at the GF diet. Maybe a residue in the wine caused the problem?
Maybe that is why so many coeliacs say they've been glutened in good restaurants?
by Tim Lowry » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:57 am
Many thanks for all that info, much appreciated.
Interesting to hear that others have reacted to wine, but i'm not ready to give up on it yet! I need the odd glass after a working week!
Thanks again.
Interesting to hear that others have reacted to wine, but i'm not ready to give up on it yet! I need the odd glass after a working week!
Thanks again.
by jess » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:24 pm
This is interesting. I thought I just couldn't tolerate wine as well as I used to when I was younger. Consequently, I have more or less given up drinking it as it just wasn't worth feeling so tired and ill the next day most times - even after just one or two glasses.
Haven't given up alcohol all together though. I've found plenty of other drinks to replace it
Haven't given up alcohol all together though. I've found plenty of other drinks to replace it
by ppstokes » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:20 pm
I think this calls for more research.
OK, Nut allergy can cause a fatal reaction, for which treatment must be instantly started. Sufferers carry injectable drugs with them at all times. Minute amounts of a nut can provoke the full reaction.
On the other hand, Coeliac Disease is less instantaneous, but can be debilitating and very inconvenient. I have seen people who stick rigidly to the diet but fail to recover properly until they exclude even the Codex starch. They then recover dramatically and stay healthy with improved blood tests as long as they avoid codex starch and stick to the diet.
Maybe those who react badly to certain wines are in a class of coeliacs who are extra sensitive?
The level of gluten that is permitted in gluten free food is lower than ever, but not zero. In some ways, it has seemed that the level was high in the past because either it was inconvenient for producers to go lower, or the tests were not able to go lower.
Now that we have sensitive tests, manufacturers can find even low levels of contamination.
In 2003 there were reports of tests that could go down to 0.16 parts per million.
http://www.celiac.com/articles/734/1/Ge ... Page1.html
Remember when 200 parts per million was considered acceptable?
Now 20 parts per million seems to be very little gluten, but nut allergy testing goes down to parts per billion.
Gluten test: 5 parts per 1,000,000
Nut Test: 5 parts per 1,000,000,000
For the technically minded, this link
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf990478q
refers to testing for hazelnut down to the parts per billion level, as long ago as 1999. Why is gluten not tested to a lower level than we have at the moment?
If a more sensitive test was used, would we find gluten in certain wines? Has it ever been looked for down to parts per billion level?
After all, it would be easy (although not recommended) to drink a litre of wine = 1000g of wine. Together with the incidental cross contamination of other food in a meal or a day's meals it might explain why a sensitive coeliac would 'react to wine' even though we are all told wine is gluten free.
OK, Nut allergy can cause a fatal reaction, for which treatment must be instantly started. Sufferers carry injectable drugs with them at all times. Minute amounts of a nut can provoke the full reaction.
On the other hand, Coeliac Disease is less instantaneous, but can be debilitating and very inconvenient. I have seen people who stick rigidly to the diet but fail to recover properly until they exclude even the Codex starch. They then recover dramatically and stay healthy with improved blood tests as long as they avoid codex starch and stick to the diet.
Maybe those who react badly to certain wines are in a class of coeliacs who are extra sensitive?
The level of gluten that is permitted in gluten free food is lower than ever, but not zero. In some ways, it has seemed that the level was high in the past because either it was inconvenient for producers to go lower, or the tests were not able to go lower.
Now that we have sensitive tests, manufacturers can find even low levels of contamination.
In 2003 there were reports of tests that could go down to 0.16 parts per million.
http://www.celiac.com/articles/734/1/Ge ... Page1.html
Remember when 200 parts per million was considered acceptable?
Now 20 parts per million seems to be very little gluten, but nut allergy testing goes down to parts per billion.
Gluten test: 5 parts per 1,000,000
Nut Test: 5 parts per 1,000,000,000
For the technically minded, this link
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf990478q
refers to testing for hazelnut down to the parts per billion level, as long ago as 1999. Why is gluten not tested to a lower level than we have at the moment?
If a more sensitive test was used, would we find gluten in certain wines? Has it ever been looked for down to parts per billion level?
After all, it would be easy (although not recommended) to drink a litre of wine = 1000g of wine. Together with the incidental cross contamination of other food in a meal or a day's meals it might explain why a sensitive coeliac would 'react to wine' even though we are all told wine is gluten free.
by HelenF » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:14 pm
Interesting discussion.
I wonder if the issue might be due to using a flour & water paste as a 'caulk' or sealant on aged oak barrels?
I posted about this a year or so ago - I'd been to an area in the Poitou -Charentes region in France where they mostly produce Cognac and a lesser-known aperitif called Pineau. Went on a tour of a centuries-old producer of Cognac and all the oak barrels were sealed with this flour-paste. I think in the bigger producers they now use food-grade wax instead, but perhaps if you are buying wine from small producers could this paste be getting into the wine in trace amounts?
Tbh it hasn't stopped me from drinking any wine - I would only have about 4 small glasses a week so I don't find any reaction happens me really.
I wonder if the issue might be due to using a flour & water paste as a 'caulk' or sealant on aged oak barrels?
I posted about this a year or so ago - I'd been to an area in the Poitou -Charentes region in France where they mostly produce Cognac and a lesser-known aperitif called Pineau. Went on a tour of a centuries-old producer of Cognac and all the oak barrels were sealed with this flour-paste. I think in the bigger producers they now use food-grade wax instead, but perhaps if you are buying wine from small producers could this paste be getting into the wine in trace amounts?
Tbh it hasn't stopped me from drinking any wine - I would only have about 4 small glasses a week so I don't find any reaction happens me really.
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Wine barrels sealed with flour paste?
by I Miss Bread! » Thu May 20, 2010 7:36 pm
Hi, interesting about the wine. I found this interesting website (http://www.glutenfreeliving.info/2010/0 ... ee-liquor/) that states some EU barrel manufacturers seal them with a flour/water paste and that some barrels may have previously contained glutenous products previously. It says some of those wine coolers can contain barley malt too. My ttg tests are on the rise, despite adhering to a strict GF diet and so I've given up wine completely (as well as many other supposedly GF products) for this reason.
by Anne » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:40 am
I saw a post on FB yesterday about some wines not being gluten free, I'd never come across this before, must check in here more often, it's is disappointing news to hear but really throws light on how sometimes I feel reallys sick after a glass of wine and other times could have double that and feel fine
by ppstokes » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:34 pm
I have the same problem with some wines - even a small amount makes me feel 'glutened' (in my case falling asleep at the table etc). Only a select few wines have this effect. The others are just lovely!
by Mariea » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:17 am
I am the same as you eff, sometimes I drink red wine & Im very bad the next day, while the others Im out with arent bad at all!
I put it down to bad hangovers too but I can drink other drinks (like vodka) & dont suffer quater as bad...it got me thinking was it anything to do with being coeliac? - I was going to actually ask this on the forum & then I saw this thread.
I would also love to have some guidlines or a list on what red wines are safe to consume...
I put it down to bad hangovers too but I can drink other drinks (like vodka) & dont suffer quater as bad...it got me thinking was it anything to do with being coeliac? - I was going to actually ask this on the forum & then I saw this thread.
I would also love to have some guidlines or a list on what red wines are safe to consume...
by Mariea » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:56 am
eef,
I used to drink white wine before but like that I was totally wired after a couple of glasses - mad as a hatter,
very unpredicable with it, 
so I stopped drinking it.
I think thats a white wine thing & not a coeliac thing as I know a few people who dont drink it for that reason, and they are not coeliac.
Since beer is off the menu
, I hope wine stays on it!
I used to drink white wine before but like that I was totally wired after a couple of glasses - mad as a hatter,
very unpredicable with it, so I stopped drinking it.
I think thats a white wine thing & not a coeliac thing as I know a few people who dont drink it for that reason, and they are not coeliac.
Since beer is off the menu
, I hope wine stays on it!
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